R-27 ET "Anomalies"

As people get to know more and more of the 1.12a "singularities" I came across 2 of them.

Lately I have been alarmed by the amount of times anyone gets killed by R-27ET and wondered exactly why this is so. I Mean, there are alot of other missiles that in theory outranges it, you get to dump flares to spoof it off at the last 10 miles to target, if you know where the oposition is. (otherwise you get sniped at as a penalty for not having SA)

I found out lately, in the last 2-3 weeks, much to my upset that this is not so simple. Sometimes I see my team mates or myself being wiped out out of the sky from seamlessly invisible enemy without warning. After thinking much I arrived at the conclusion that we did cover the whole airspace and who fired it was indeed the ones in front of us but like 20% 40% further away than we expected them to fire their R-27ET's!

So I went to experiment of my own. Made a fast batle and set up 4 bandits far away armed with SARH and ARH missiles. Usualy you get a launch authorization at like 15-20 klicks, but this time I fired them somewehere between 25-30 klicks away. To my surprise they guided and hit their targets much more often than I suposed possible. Not only that but this missile will lead porsuit a target at 90º off its seeker. This enabled me stealthy kills and room to evade ANY missiled they thrown at me.

It is my opinion that in 1.2 this should get fixed along with the AMRAAM because I think with a bit of skill you can outrange slammer shots with an IR missile!!

I will try to make a track of this later.

Ok here goes the track (didnt take me long to achieve what I described above).

Mission Debriefing:

4 F-15's VS sole Mig29 Human.

Armament: 8 AMRAAMs each eagle VS 2 R-73's, 2 R-27Et's' and 2 R-77's

Engagement:

Started high VS bandit medium altitude, head to head as Usualy I do online. Each of us is aware of the other. As I override ET and fire it at long range, before the enemy even thinks about launching its first AMRAAM (I dont know if you noticed I locked the fartherst bandit!!!)

The missile clearly can guide past its kitetic range as shown here, and falls short of the target still guiding despite the AI's SA cheat.

Second ET I fire guides perfectly from more than 25 KM away and scores a direct hit. No AMRAAM can get anywhere close.

After that just see how the R-77 is outmanuevered when I fired it closer in and it misses. Second R-77 kills 2nd enemy and then I go R-73's and Guns with total impunity to AMRAAM's (8 each F-15 remenber?).

All I can say is... WOW'ed by this migs perfomance and its R-27ET missiles.

Seriously, this needs to be adressed.

I'm wanting the Weapons Advanced Flight Model more than ever :(

Well at least it took a while for anybody to notice that all they did was decrease the LA range . . . .

If what you say is true then something else has changed. It used to be that the ET would not track at all unless you had "LA" without overriding.

It seems as "LA" is there just to look pretty, Im afraid. Im wanting BS more than ever. ;)

Also did you see how big the ET's View cones is?! Geesh...

According to my test it is still the case. Launch Override and firing and ET missiles will not track the target. It MUST give LA automatically before it will track.

Semi Actives however will track at any distance as does a AIM120 or an AIM7. The effective range of an ER is a bit further. But it takes a real skill to maintain lock and avoid a flood of incoming AIM120's or R77's.

If your ET's do track then I suspect there is something is wrong with your installation.

If your ET's do track then I suspect there is something is wrong with your installation.

If theres something wrong (or "funny") with my installation then the track wont show the engagements as described above for you. The first F-15 I kill will instead survive on "your installation" (remenber my problems playing your tracks a while ago? I reinstalled the game since, and they play correctly)

Just try my track and see it. And then do it yourself.

(I gave the trouble of making it, and you didnt even bothered looking at it? tss tss)

There is definitely something very wrong. In your track you fire the ET without a LA even in the HUD!?!?.

I cannot do this at all. I HAVE to use Launch Override" to even get it off the rails. When it is released it doesnt track. Only flies straight. I suspect others that do the this test are going to have the same result as me.

Dude I used a macro to override LA in a milisecond and then restore it right after launch. I made this on X52 profile. If you wish I can suply you my profile. Just check the LA apear and then it goes off after launch. You can do it manualy on keyboard but its a nuissance.

i dont use x52, it seems it must fool the sim. ET should not track the target. That's how its meant to be. If your can then you have an unfair advantage over other players. But it sounds like we have isolated the problem.

Try it again without using your macro

rgr, but be advised that I already did this before making the macro, after all it only emulates keyboard comands and doesnt interfere with the game at all.

Also you must be facing your target before launch. Watch the track again in detail this time.

I cant fire till LA is displayed. there's nothing for me that will change that. If LA does not come up on its own And I instead use LAunch Override, The missile will not track the target. It just flies straight.

Ok After some extensive testing Ive managed to make the ET track the target. BUT I had to be very good at predicting where the target was going to be and when it did start to track it was going less that 1000 km an hour and as soon as it started to turn lost so much energy it was no threat at all. It might hit a drone but the missile has LA is based on how much kinetic energy it will have to make it effective and this seems to be correct.

ET is an effective weapon but only at ranges of 15 km or less. What you are suggesting is no different to a maddogged AIM120 which I suggest is a whole lot more dangerous than a Maddogged ET. And both run the risk of hitting a friendly target.

This one is even more bizarre, did LA override manualy and look what hapened! :D

It doesnt take much guessing because I fired 2, one off the mark and both still found a targets well past its kinetic limits!

Found target but had no energy to kill it. Your track showed the same results. Started tracking at about 1000kph going downhill and got no where near hitting the aircraft(s)

ET is an effective weapon but only at ranges of 15 km or less. What you are suggesting is no different to a maddogged AIM120 which I suggest is a whole lot more dangerous than a Maddogged ET. And both run the risk of hitting a friendly target.

Hmmm the difference here is that AI always knows an IR missile is heading at him and dodge, while a human oponent doesnt and he will never get a warning. He will fly straight and ablivious. Remenber last night? Believe it or not I killed you like this once, I was waiting for you to say something like this to prove my point. I tested it on 169 on 2 sesssions and got 2 kills in this fassion. (not that I avoided much better myself, got Powned as well, Im not on my best lately)

Cheers!

The AIM 120 at those ranges will still be doing 1500-2000km an hour and be a difficult object to avoid. The ET has to be perctly aimd like a bullet to see something and when it does its going so slowly it would have to be a very lucky shot indeed. What you are demonstrating here is prbably exactly what an ET would do in real life. It will without the assistance of the LAunch pad seek a target if it appears withinits gimble limits.

I dont see myself wanting to change tactics.

Also the other point is that the seeker is not quite the limiting factor here as we might tend to believe. The only reason why those ET's didnt hit was because the AI knew about them (wich a human wont) and flew well past its motor capabilities and still guided. The kinetic energy is more of a factor than the seeker is.

The AIM 120 at those ranges will still be doing 1500-2000km an hour and be a difficult object to avoid.

The AMRAAM's limiting factor is its seeker. the first track clearly shows this. I mock my oponents by flying into a cloud of AMRAAM's well under 10 miles.

Watch this..

Then tell me the ET is more dangerous

Uber-AIM-120-Ice

All missiles have advantages and Disadvantages. ET is a good missile if manage to get aound the oponents longer range missiles to use it effectively.

Firing Madogged ET's at longer ranges of 15km will have a very poor hit ratio at best. AIM 120's fired in the same manner are going to hit targets more often.

If what you say is true then something else has changed. It used to be that the ET would not track at all unless you had "LA" without overriding.

Just made a quick check of P's 1st Uber-ET track (no time for much more today). Missile #1 is launched at 16:00:37 @ range 28km. Straight line flight toward nomaneuvering taregts. Acquires at 16:00:48 @ 15km and starts guiding on first group. Shifts to originally locked taget and guides @ 16:00:49. Misile #2 launched @ 16:01:39 @ 25km. Straight line flight with no maneuvering until acquires target @ 16:01:47 @ range 14km.

Rich